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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I see the confusion in my original mail. I misspoke. I meant to
give the two problems that I am aware of of and state some IETF effort in
solving each. Quickstart as an example of something that would address problem
1 and some requests that I have seen where customers want to start with a high
value of cwnd, and limited slow start as something that would address #2. For
connections that never leave slow start, limited slow start is going to slow
things further. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Now as part of SSDT motivation, we should agree on what problems
we are solving and given there is some prior effort we should also say why
these solutions are not sufficient or alternatively may have deployment
blockers. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Murari<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Dirceu Cavendish
[mailto:dirceu_cavendish@yahoo.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Murari Sridharan; iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Iccrg] SSDT Scope<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am aware how quickStart helps with Web
Service transactions. My question was about how limited slow start helps with
that, which was I understood from your previous message...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Dirceu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Murari Sridharan <muraris@microsoft.com><br>
To: Dirceu Cavendish <dirceu_cavendish@yahoo.com>;
"iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk" <iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk><br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:31:18 PM<br>
Subject: RE: [Iccrg] SSDT Scope<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>If i am a web app and i have say some small data to
transfer, today in slow start it would take multiple round trips to transfer
this data, now say i negotiated a rate with quick start or started with higher
cwnd i could complete the transaction faster and be done. I have seen customers
complain about this esp when they are on high latency low bandwidth links. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Dirceu Cavendish
[dirceu_cavendish@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Murari Sridharan; iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Iccrg] SSDT Scope</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Inline comments: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Murari Sridharan <muraris@microsoft.com><br>
To: Dirceu Cavendish <dirceu_cavendish@yahoo.com>;
"iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk" <iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk><br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:21:18 PM<br>
Subject: RE: [Iccrg] SSDT Scope<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have heard two sets of complaints about slow start; one its
too slow, in the sense for connections that usually never get out of slow start
and are latency sensitive need something faster. Proposals; second is nto
really a customer complaint per-se but not good behavior in general, which is
that slow start doubles rate before it hits a loss and this overshooting of
buffer should be avoided if we can detect it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Now the first problem is already addressed to some extent by
proposals like Limited Slowstart, QuickStart etc . is SSDT</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>¢</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>s
goal to improve those solutions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><dc> I confess I am a bit confused with your last
statement about limited slow start and quickstart as solutions to connections
that usually never get out of slow start. How does limited slow start help
there? I would understand limited slow start helping the second issue as
described above...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also would rather keep the discussion about what are the
current SS issues worthy to work on, rather than to jump into a discussion on
possible solutions of issues that potentially are not found worth pursuing
them. Also, it may be that we agree that a tangible and hence worth
pursuing contribution would be to come-up with a document describing the
relevant limitations of SS, as the ICCRG sees it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dirceu</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'></dc></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
iccrg-bounces@cs.ucl.ac.uk [mailto:iccrg-bounces@cs.ucl.ac.uk] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirceu
Cavendish<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Iccrg] SSDT Scope</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On Michael's advise, I am
re-sending this message to the ICCRG mailing list.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hello people interested in
Slow Start.<br>
The first discussion is about the scope of the SSDT group. A good starting
point is to list what people have experienced as incovenient behavior of slow
start. Once we agree on what to address, we can scope the objectives/goals of
the SSDT group.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Our "pain points"
are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>- multiple segment losses in
high bandwidth delay product networks, when SS opens the cwnd to a large value
right before transitioning from SS to CA. This typically causes multiple
RTOs...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>- Unfairness with different
session RTTs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Feel free to add yours.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Dirceu</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Lachlan Andrew <lachlan.andrew@gmail.com><br>
To: Michael Welzl <michael.welzl@uibk.ac.at><br>
Cc: iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk<br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:04:48 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Iccrg] "Slow Start" design team<br>
<br>
Greetings Michael and Lars,<br>
<br>
An advantage of separate mailing lists is that it allows people set up<br>
filters for the mail clients. That could also be done by asking<br>
people to put a keyword in their email subjects (like slowstartDT).<br>
<br>
FWIW, I'm unlikely to subscribe to the DT mailing lists, but wouldn't<br>
mind extra traffic on iccrg@...<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Lachlan<br>
<br>
On 25/03/2008, Michael Welzl <<a href="mailto:michael.welzl@uibk.ac.at"
target="_blank">michael.welzl@uibk.ac.at</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 16:05 +0200, Lars Eggert wrote:<br>
> > On 2008-3-25, at 15:54, ext Michael Welzl wrote:<br>
> > > The first concrete proposal on the table is (somewhat<br>
> > > unsurprisingly :) ) a design team on Slow
Start,<br>
> > > led by Dirceu himself (which I, not he, suggested).<br>
> > > I think it's a nice start and definitely worth trying.<br>
> ><br>
> > Sounds good.<br>
> ><br>
> > > To join the list, send an email to:<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:iccrg-slowstart-ctl@ndrc.kyutech.ac.jp"
target="_blank">iccrg-slowstart-ctl@ndrc.kyutech.ac.jp</a><br>
> > > with "subscribe YOUR NAME" as the body of the
message.<br>
> ><br>
> > But why does the DT need its own list? It's not like the ICCRG
list is<br>
> > flooded with traffic, and having the discussions in the open
seems<br>
> > useful.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ah, that was just an idea ... after all there should be<br>
> multiple design teams with multiple lists one day<br>
><br>
> we could have it all in the open if people want that,<br>
> but it just seems to make things a little more organized<br>
> to me ... dunno, doesn't really matter i suppose<br>
><br>
> cheers<br>
><br>
> michael<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Iccrg mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk" target="_blank">Iccrg@cs.ucl.ac.uk</a><br>
> <a href="http://oakham.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/iccrg"
target="_blank">http://oakham.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/iccrg</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Lachlan Andrew Dept of Computer Science, Caltech<br>
1200 E California Blvd, Mail Code 256-80, Pasadena CA 91125, USA<br>
Ph: +1 (626) 395-8820 Fax: +1 (626) 568-3603<br>
<a href="http://netlab.caltech.edu/lachlan" target="_blank">http://netlab.caltech.edu/lachlan</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="http://oakham.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/iccrg" target="_blank">http://oakham.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/iccrg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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